Chip and Joanna Gaines have several new TV shows — and maybe not what you expect.

When most fans think of the Gaines, they think of home and lifestyle. Their first TV show, called a home renovation format Fixer upperhelped launch a cable network (Magnolia) full of similar fare, along with a retail complex in their hometown of Waco, a major housewares line and even a hotel business. But now they are also launching… the contest shows in Max about roller skating (Roller Jam), rodents (Human vs. Hamster) and singing (Second Chance Stage)?

But for the Gaineses, it makes perfect sense—because like all great entrepreneurs, they've defined a mission for themselves. And it might be a little different than you think.

“The sword we refuse to die by,” says Chip, “is someone forcing us to do something we don't feel great about, and we put it out there because it's 'what they want' or 'what we are. we”. supposed to do'”.

You can listen our entire conversation hereor in the audio player. Below is an edited version.

When I saw this new programming plan and how fun and clever it was, I immediately asked myself: How do you draw the line between your past work and this? You guys have been so thoughtful about the Magnolia expansion, so there must be some logic to it.

Chip: No and I strongly believe that what got us here was a bit of thought and strategy – but what we wanted was, it was risky. Now Jo and I are looking back on these two decades saying, “What is it about this experience that we love most?”

We had a thousand options for TV shows on one wall, and it became a little paralyzing, at least temporarily. But as we started to narrow them down, we kept laughing because the four of them didn't have any clear lines. Then (Magnolia Network President) Allison Page said, “You know what? The only thing they have in common is authenticity and joy. And that's what Chip and Joe have always been about.” It just felt nice.

The sword we refuse to die by is someone forcing us to do something we don't feel great about, and we put it there because it's “what they want” or “what we have to do” and then we we regret it later because we knew all along that it wasn't about us and the things we care about.

Joanna: When we think about Magnolia, whether it's the magazine, our store, the network – the whole essence of it for us as a company is: How do we bring people together for these meaningful moments? Because when we pull back and see who comes to the stores, it's all ages. It's a girl's group of friends. There is a grandmother, a grandfather, there are grandchildren – it is the family. And if you're together with the people you love, and you're watching something and you're all experiencing the same emotion, there's something really special about that.

Chip talked about not doing things just because you are expected to. This is difficult. It's often much easier to play by the numbers and say, “We know people want this, so we're just going to keep doing it.” How do you push yourself to do more?

Joanna: I feel like this is from the east that is Chip. He says, “No, life is just one big experiment.” But my consolation is, “Let's do this for the rest of our lives and never turn around.” I feel safer there.

Chip: But how do you get to those places as a person who isn't comfortable doing it naturally?

Joanna: The first thing that comes to mind is this idea of ​​skydiving—which I've never done. But my whole life, with every decision I've ever made, I equate it to feeling like I'm standing on the edge of a mountain and I have to jump saying yes. For most of my life, that fear held me back. So I never felt the thrill of, I don't know what's next. I didn't want to. I wanted to know that I was planted safely on the ground. But the more I exercised that muscle, the more emotions I could feel.

It's not problematic in a way where I will always say yes to things. But when I hear Chip say, “Let's experiment,” that means there might be a failure, but there might also be a win. There's something liberating about Let's Experiment.

So I guess my mindset now is: How are we evolving? How are we creating? How do we keep our eyes open? Because I feel like most of what we've built has been pretty instinctive. It was more courage. And no matter how big this business gets for us, this is really core to who we are: How do we feel? Although it makes sense to say yes to this, if we don't feel it, we will say no again.

From Gainese's new show, Human vs. Hamster.

Image Credit: Courtesy of Max

Joanna, you may think of yourself as a risk-taker, but you've also decided to trust Chip – a person who thinks completely differently than you do. That in itself is a kind of risk, isn't it?

Joanna: This is a very good point.

Chip: We have been married for over 20 years now. Early in our marriage, I thought I was right and she was wrong. I was an optimist, and she was a bit of a pessimist – although she would refer to herself as a “realist”. But as I grew older, I realized that she has a much more difficult position. Taking risks comes very naturally to me. I feel comfortable when I'm uncomfortable. But for you, Jo, it was a very difficult decision.

I have a friend who defines success as “distance travelled”. The way we're defining it here, Joanna, the distance you've come to these kinds of decisions is greater—which is the greater achievement.

Chip: Completely. Amen. She is very thoughtful and that has been very helpful for someone like me who is not.

Our team also helps push us. We like to have people around who are questioning our thinking, questioning our intentions: “Is this right for Magnolia? Is this right for Chip and Joanna?” We also love people who say, “Hey, we actually agree with you, but here's a counterargument.”

How do you find people who may disagree with you, but who you still trust? It is not easy.

Joanna: Chip and I really appreciate people whose lives are different than ours. We know we'll sharpen each other. Somehow, we find this middle ground, and we're like, “Oh, we're the same in those areas.” But for the most part, we find strength in our differences. We come to the table understanding that those differences will make us see in a new way, and we will all leave the room richer, smarter, more curious. I think that's the beauty of relationships, whether they're just a couple or a team.

As for how we find those people: I don't know if that's the right answer, but I think we attract different people to work here with us. It's nice that when you sit at a table with 15 people, you see everyone and no one's life is the same.

Chip: It wasn't even really strategic. It wasn't entirely intentional. But we wanted the people around us to care more about what we were trying to achieve than our feelings or opinions about how to achieve it. As a result, the ideas we articulate are much, much stronger—because there were so many different angles that were considered as we wrestled with them.

No and I joke about the start of our show, Fixer upper. The producers, and maybe even a network executive or two, said, “You need to get out of Waco. This needs to grow. No one is going to be able to relate to this thing.” But as it started to evolve, people connected—not because we seemed like a weird couple with lots of animals and lots of kids, but rather, we were a couple who really cared about each other and cared about our community and cared about our customers ours. And it resonated with people living in completely different ecosystems.

The bottom line is: We want to provide opportunities for more and more people to talk about ideas that make them think about the world in a different way.

In other words, it all comes back to how Joana defined your mission: How do we bring people together for these meaningful moments?

Chip: Man, brother – the blow!